One of the worst things a musician can do in the world of music today is “sell out”. When a musician appears to have sold their artistic integrity for a good record deal, a more mainstream fan base, or a solid gold microphone the case often is that the more established fan for the before mentioned musician will often cry “sell out”. But is it really the musician who has changed, or have they just produced music that can lead to some form of success? I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area and local musicians have always been an interest of mine. I remember being in middle school and hearing about this great local band out of 
een Day back in middle school. They were a high energy punk band that had a loyal following of rowdy college students. Then came "Dookie". Green Day left their small time record company, Look Out, to sign with a major label and release their break out CD. The “loyal” fan base was furious to see that their local, under-ground band was now “selling out”. The band lost most of their original fan base but made up for it by selling 15 million copies of "Dookie" worldwide.
Success in the music industry can easily be seen as a two edged sword. Success means that you are doing something right, that your message is reaching a large audience. However, in some cases, success can be seen as artistic suicide. How often do you hear a friend say, “I liked there older stuff, but they have sold out now…”. I know I have fallen victim to this ideology, I have lost interest in some musicians because I have felt that they had changed or they had become too popular to be “cool” anymore.
Here are a few questions that I throw out to my fellow classmates. Do you feel that some musicians lose some of their appeal when they have success? Does success ultimately mean that a musician has “sold out”? And why do you think it irritates fans when their bands “sell out”?
35 comments:
Interesting
Or is the notion of "selling out" and the feelings that are associated with that more a reflection of the fan than the band?
I can see why musicians want to make it big for financial and fame reasons. I do think it's healthy to not care about money and just do what you love to make a positive impact for good. It's interesting because as a fan, I have usually wanted the band to make it big so their music becomes more accessible and so more people know who I'm talking about.
I do think there are plenty of bands that truly have "sold out" and ended up creating music just to make money and become popular, but I think that we over-use the phrase. I think there are still quite a number of bands that have become extremely popular, but continue to write the music that they want to write, regardless of the price-tag. I think part of the reason why so many bands are considered "sell-outs" is because we like to listen to bands that are less well-known, or underground. Once they become mainstream we often call them sell-outs so we can come up with an excuse as to why we no longer enjoy them, when in reality a large part of it is because we don't want to admit we like a "popular" band and we're no longer trendy or ahead of the crowd.
I think we may be confusing causation with correlation. I often find that when bands do sign with major labels, it isn't til they put out their major label album that their fans make a judgment. However, major labels often influence bands to go against the sort of music they created in the first place. This difference adds to the disillusionment the fans feel because it means that the music isn't as pure as it once was. There are many instances where this didn't happen and the music created under a major label was still as pure as before.
I don't have any problem with musicians "selling out." I'm happy when a band I love finds success. Signing a record deal will give them more widespread exposure, and I think that's great. It's good for people to hear the music I like.
I can see why some musicians go bigger and leave the underground appeal. I mean there is more security with more money. I guess i've never really been into the underground bands, so i've supported the big musicians and will continue to do so.
i love the song "Sell Out" by the Reel Big Fish
you're gonna go to the record store
you're gonna give 'em all your money
radio plays what they want you to hear
they tell me it's cool but I just don't believe it...
sell out, with me oh yea, sell out, with me tonight
record company's gonna give me lots of money
and everything's gonna be (all right).
i think that describes it pretty well! people "sell out" to make more money. I'd do the same thing.
If I were in a band and we played at little gigs where a couple hundred loyal fans came and watched us and we made a couple hundred bucks and I had the chance to tweak my music a little bit and make a few million dollars I wouldn't waste too much time playing in underground venues.
Money makes people do a lot of things they wouldn't normally do. I'm pretty sure I'd sell out if I was a musician. When someone creates a business and then harvests it by selling to a larger corporation are they selling out or being successful business men? If the answer to this question is different from a musician...why is that?
I don't think they're selling out. It's their profession. As you said, they are trying to move up and get a bigger fan base. Could fans not be tainted and upset mostly because they knew of something that no one else did and then when it became more mainstream, they drop the band like it's hot? And the music may have changed slightly or not at all when they start to become more mainstream. Who's the sellout then? Probably the fan more than band.
I agree with some of the above comments. I think it's more a matter of the fans feeling like they're no longer ahead of the crowd and trendy as soon as their fave underground band becomes main stream, so they call them sell outs and move on to another underground band. I think it's mostly the fans, not the band.
As much as we would like artists to make music for the love of the art not to make money, the music business is a business. It just happens to have an artistic exterior. Musicians need to pay the bills, they need to eat and they will do what they can to maximize their profits, you cant hold that against them. Many times the music they want to make wont be the most successful, so their record label and or manager says you guys should try and sound more like this. This creates the illusion of "selling out". I think success many times does spoil creativity unless the artist is very careful in managing their success.
I feel like every fan likes listening to bands before they hit it big so they can "like them first". I guess I'm not too familiar with a certain band's music before they became popular to realize the change. However does becoming popular constitute "selling out"? When a popular band produces music is it truly their own, or are they being fed particular songs that the mainstream public would like? Can you blame them for wanting to become successful? I feel as if the artist still possesses their integrity and they like what they are producing, what's the big deal?
Its the fan's loss of personal identity that angers them when a band "sells out." Before a local band gets a hot record deal, they are more intimately connected with their smaller audience, which in return uses the band and its music as part of its identity. When the band goes big, that bit of individualism is lost. I remember listening to Jack Johnson before my mission (this was about 5 years ago), and loving his music. Plus, no one else besides me and my close circle of friends knew about the guy. As a recent RM I was turned off to know that he was now mainstream-popular and was a little turned off by it. Thinking about that situation made me realize that I liked to feel that my fan-ship meant being part of an exclusive group. Mostly because, to me, it meant more than just music, it meant defining who I was. And I didn't want to be the same as everyone else.
I think it does offend some fans when their favorite band "sells out" but I also think that it's really sad that everyone assumes band's lose their artistic side when they become popular. I have a few bands I like today that have changed over time, but its not because they're selling out, it's because their sound has changed as they've evolved and grown as a band. I don't think that band's should feel bad for being successful...
People wan't to identify themselves by their music and often want to be identified as unique idividuals. SO if one person is identified by jack johnson, (laid back, surfer attitdue, sensitive and happy, whatever)... well BAD NEWS for them, because a billion other girls are subconsiously thinking the same thing. So people try to find "unknown" "unpopular" bands that have yet to "sell out" to identify themselves with.
I personally think that many groups get signed or get popular because they are just really good.
Money is root of all evil. People have left the church over it. Something so good, but just can't deal with it. Bands are just the same. They'll sell out over money because it just starts to get to you.
Musicians don't lose really much of their appeal when they reach success. I know the feeling when you are a fan of an underground band, and then they reach a certain popularity that makes their name widely known and you get annoyed, however its every bands dream to reach the top. They aren't selling out per say, but rather evolving to a certain extent, and maybe sometimes molding to the labels liking.
I agree with the above comments. Bands want to be successful. Making it to the top and "selling out" means that they have accomplished their goal. I can see where the original fans may get upset, but maybe that is because they no longer feel unique because all their favorite music is now overplayed on the radio.
Your blog reminds me of "Love Song" by Sara Bareilles. Her record company told her that she needed to write a love song if she wanted her new CD to be a success. She tried, but the words to a love song weren't in her. So, she wrote a song about how she wouldn't create the music her record company told her to. She knew that if she wrote songs she was inspired to write, she would be successful.
musicians want their music to be heard. i don't see a problem in "selling out" so that they can have a bigger fan base. people want to feel unique and they want to think that they are the only ones who know about a certain band which is why they are irritated when their favorite indie band "sells out" and begins to have radio play for the general population.
i think part of the problem with bands "selling out" is definitely a problem with the fan — someone who prides themself in knowing about music before anyone else does. but i think that becoming mainstream definitely does change some bands, as they begin creating songs that will appeal to mass audiences. but its not necessarily a bad thing, it just changes the audience.
I have caught myself saying that certain bands have "sold out." I do think that this notion of "selling out" is mainly all in the mind of the fan. It brings me joy to find bands that no one really knows about. When they grow popular somehow they lose their magic to me that they once had, even if they are producing the same kind of music.
I think some musicians do lose their appeal when they become big. But I think its a price they are willing to pay to get more fans and more money. I think on some level bands "sell out" when they become big, because they are leaving something that was a big of who they were.
People always like to be on the down-low and feel like they "own" something that only they and their friends know about. That's why people will boast that they heard of a band before they "got big." So when a band makes a smart decision and tries to get a larger audience and make more money, their original fan base might be offended because they are losing their insider knowledge and ownership. If they really liked the band, they'd still listen to them.
Most musicians play music because they love it, but they wouldn't be able to play it all the time if they didn't get paid for doing what they did. It's hard to draw the line between when they are just making a living and when they start getting paid too much - who's to say?
I agree with most people in the belief that the idea of "selling out" is very subjective to each fan. I think it is very easy to confuse popularity or success with "selling out" as well. I understand completely when you feel like you are the first person to fall in love with some new band that no one else knows about, only to find a month or two later that everyone else and their dog now listens to them. A band really "sells out" when their music and creativity starts getting curbed my labels and they start making music to appeal to the general public just to make money. Then again that is the opinion of a fan.
I can completely relate to the feeling of your favorite artist "selling out". I for one find appeal in the unknown, but it would be selfish of me to want them to stay that way. Success in this industry has a price and that can sometimes mean changing an image or to the fan base "selling out", but I like to think of it as more of an evolution.
I think that some fans like to be the "different guys" who like the band that is not famous, etc. When this band becomes everybody's favorite, then they are not unique anymore and then they are mad with the band. I don't think success is selling out, but in our society today, success is strongly correlated to money, and when you sell out, money is coming in. But I do agree that there are many levels of success and money is not the only one.
We talked in class about how music helps us express a sense of individuality, of being different. When an underground group goes big, the first faithful followers lose their claim on the music. It's no longer uniquely "theirs," and by default they are no longer unique.
I think that the reason why fans get mad when their bands become popular is because then other people know about the band, making them as a fan no different or special and they have to find a new band to be cool and different again.
I think it can go either way--either they change their sound to sell to a larger fan base of they sort of figure themselves out and suddenly their music is worth listening to. For some reason John Mayer comes to mind. His first album Room for Squares was poppy, upbeat and catchy. Next album was a little different and then came Continuum.... AMAZING. It seems like he figured out his own style. The whole feel of his music is different on this album and yet it is his most popular one. Just depends on the artist.
Selling out is kind of what a band or artist's goal is. Most of the time they love their music and what they are doing but at the same time the appeal of fame and the benefits that come with it also become a love. As long as the artists and bands can separate their trade and talent from the business and financial side I don't think there is anything wrong with selling out.
I never have paid attention to local bands or this underground world of music. What I hear on the radio is what I know. I love Greenday but I only knew them as a big band. I probably would have never got exposed to them if they never "Sold Out."
One quality of great music is its timelessness. It sounds great the first time you listened to it , and even better after the 100th time. Is that the band or composer who "sold out?"
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